Good morning. I'm late cause I type so slow. We're moving quick because I've got a full plate. First two items from Democracy Now! that you should know about.
California Executes Stanley Tookie Williams
In California Stanley Tookie Williams has died after being executed by lethal injection early this morning by the state of California. He was 51 years old. On Monday California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger refused to spare his life and grant him clemency. Williams was a co-founder the Crips street gang. He was jailed after being convicted of four murders in 1979. He later became an advocate against gang violence and has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. Early this morning over 2,000 people gathered outside San Quentin Prison to protest his execution including the Rev. Jesse Jackson.
Rev. Jesse Jackson: "I am obviously very disappointed that the governor has missed a moment to choose life over death, has missed a moment to choose redemption over revenge."
U.S. Activists Hold Vigil Outside Guantanmo
A group of U.S. activists have begun a vigil near the gates of the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay. Members of the group Witness Against Torture walked for five days across Cuba to reach Guantanmo. Military officials rejected their request to meet with any of the 500 or so prisoners who are being held without charges.
Peace activist Frida Berrigan: "We're fasting, most of us fasting just on water. Some people drinking some juice. Fasting and praying, and hoping that our intentions reach the prisoners. That somehow through the power of prayer, they will feel our presence, feel our solidarity. At the same time we're calling on people in the United States to call President Bush, to call Donald Rumsfeld, to get in touch with the base here in Guatanamo, so that we might be let in to visit the prisoners, to visit the soldiers, American soldiers here. And to open up this modern heart of darkness to the light of day and to the light of world scrutiny."
Check Elaine's site, all the time, Like Maria Said Paz. She is "disappointed." Me, I'm just pissed. She said she's so disappointed she might not even post tonight. I hope she does.
I've got an interview with someone tonight and we'll get into it there. This guy's name is Ryan. This isn't Ryan of The Common Ills community. Ryan's someone we tracked down by using Google. Real basic thing. Leg work involved but I guess it's tough for some people. Giving credit where it's due, C.I.'s the one whose idea to track Ryan paid off. Ryan, welcome and I'm not sure where to start so how about you describe yourself to us.
Ryan: Sure. I'm 34 years-old, married for almost ten years, ten years in February, we got married on the 14th. We got a daughter. She's real pretty and in the second grade. Her name's --. My wife's name I'll leave out because she's a teacher and it can get pretty red neck, Bush loving in our part of Texas. In fact, can you take out my daughter's name too?
Done.
Ryan: Thanks. Everyone knows where I am politically and that's great with me. Keeps the creeps from talking to me. But I just don't want to do anything that screws stuff up for my wife.
No problem. For the record, Ryan's opinions represent only him. His wife's opinions aren't being discussed.
Ryan: What else? I grew up in Kansas. Moved to Texas. I'm a Democrat. Parents are, there parents are, their parents were. How's that?
Good, real good. Now we spoke together before.
Ryan: Right. I got an e-mail from C.I. asking about a Dylan post. Okay, here's the e-mail: "Ryan, I think I saw your post on Dylan online and was wondering if that was with you? If it was, I'll assume you know what I'm speaking of. If not, ignore this e-mail and my apologies for bothering you. If it was you, would you be interested in speaking of this for the record to The Third Estate Sunday Review? They are an online web site." And there's a link there. Then it says, "If you're not interested but you do know what I'm speaking of and would like to talk off the record, please contact me."
And you knew what C.I. was talking about?
Ryan: Yes. I'd read a post I disagreed with about Bob Dylan at a site that I visited and I'd posted that I disagreed with it and that I didn't think Dylan had done anything worth listening to in 40 years.
Then what happened?
Ryan: What did I think happen or what turned out to happen? Because what I thought was happening was all the readers of that site were dogging on me with some really nasty remarks. What it turned out happened is that someone, maybe the guy who wrote the thing, linked it to a Bob Dylan site and all these Dylan freaks showed up to tell me I'm "stupid" or "stupid shit" or whatever. One person felt the need to list everything Bob Dylan had done in the last 40 years in his personal life. I don't care about his personal life. I didn't write about his personal life. I don't think he's done anything in the last forty years that's up to what he did when he started. So I'm reading this and checking back. I keep waiting for the people at the site to do something as the abuse piles on.
Why was that?
Ryan: There's a woman with the site, I think it's her site. She used to do a site for Ms. Magazine that my wife and I both read. If things like that happened there, wait. Nothing like that would have happened there. But if some comments half as nasty had popped up there, she would have come into the comments and said something. She would have said that we can all disagree or we can agree to disagree but let's not be personal. That didn't happen while I was checking. I'm too old for that kind of nonsense. I mean, if kids want to do that nonesense, that's there business. And I liked the guy who posted the thing. I liked everyone's writing at the site. I just disagreed with that post. So I said that. I didn't say, "You dumb whatever," I just posted that I disagreed 100% and that I thought Dylan hadn't done anything worth listening to in 40 years. I think I said something about Ani DiFranco and Bright Eyes. Something nice because the guy was trashing "When A President Talks To God." He came off real pompous and was sneering at that song. I mean, did you see that on Leno?
Yeah, I did. He performed it on The Tonight Show. People applauded. It was a big moment. It's a powerful song. Did you type "You're pompous."
Ryan: No. I said I disagreed with him 100% and then stuck to the issue of music. I'd posted there before and never had anything like that happen. But I'd always posted something encouraging.
Not that time.
Ryan: No. I didn't see the point. I could've posted that. Why is that website writing about Bob Dylan? Did his book just come out? No. Does he have a new CD? No. Did his public TV special just air? No. It was a tired post on a tired topic. And I really didn't appreciate him dogging Bright Eyes.
So what happened?
Ryan: I stopped going. I thought this was a site for adults. That the readers were adults. That the people writing stuff for it were adults. I don't need flamers. If someone had said, "I disagree with you 100%" back at me, that would have been fine. But there were personal attacks on me and the language was an issue because I was on a computer at work. We do have guidelines about what we can look at but other than that, it's not an issue. We can't go to sites with nudity, obviously, and the language has to be appropriate. So between the comments and the fact that no one stepped in to say, "Okay, that's getting too personal," I was done with the site. In fact, I stayed away from everything for a few days. I checked my email. I checked out ESPN. But that was it. At home and at work. I read that site all the time and there had never been anything like that before that I saw. If there had been, dogging me or dogging anyone, I wouldn't have gone there. I can't deal with that little kid stuff and that's what it was to me, a bunch of little kids tossing out their dirty words. And nothing like that had ever happened there. I mean, there are things they put up that get no comments. They're lucky to get three comments on most stuff. I read stuff and I wouldn't comment unless I really liked it. So I thought this was a place for adults. When someone did disagree, they weren't swearing like sailors and usually that would result in an exchange between the author of the original thing and who ever commented. It was mature.
And then you just checked out.
Ryan: Yeah, that was it. Then I got the e-mail from C.I. and wrote back because I did want to talk about this. I knew The Common Ills but I wasn't a member.
You want to tell what you said when we were all on the phone with you?
Ryan: Yeah, I apologized for not being a member and said that my wife and I couldn't afford it. We didn't pledge to our local station.
NPR?
Ryan: Yeah, PBS. We didn't have the money. Then C.I. explains about "member" and I started laughing because I had gotten that so wrong.
Because there's no money exchanged. You just e-mail things you want to share with the community and make a contribution in that way.
Ryan: I still laugh about that. But my wife thought the same thing. We give to Bartcop. And we go there at home. We can't go there at work. She teaches school and she'd get in more trouble on some of the things there then I would. But we scrape a little together each year for Bartcop because we believe in it. It was easier a few years ago but I haven't gotten a raise in three years. We're on a hiring freeze, for three years now, and there are no raises for us. On top of that, the stuff they take out of every check for insurance went up. I'm on my wife's plan now because it's better and it's cheaper. But, at least where I am, tomatoes went up, milk went up.
We're struggling. Like three years ago, we switched to Roma tomatoes. I like the round ones but Roma tomatoes were only 79 cents a pound at our local Kroger. So it was a way to cut back. Only thing is, they went up to 89 cents and then up again and up again. Last weekend, we were talking about this, how they were, I think, a dollar and 19 cents. We couldn't not give to Bart. He's funny and he's there day after day and didn't worry about what anyone said, he just told it like it was and he's kept doing that.
Anything you want to take out about your wife?
Ryan: No. But can I read this before it goes up to double check?
Sure.
Ryan: Thanks. So we scrape together what we can, when we can. We don't listen to the radio show or nothing like that. But Bart works hard and he needs money to do that because the site costs him money and he puts so much time into it. So we scrape together when we can. It's actually been awhile. So I'll probably mention this to my wife and we'll see if we can get together something before Christmas. If we can, great. If we can't, we'll wait until after New Year's.
Sure.
Ryan: So I thought that was what the whole membership meant at The Common Ills. And I like the site and go there but we had to stop giving to public TV and that's, you know you feel like a bum watching, or I do, because they're asking for money all the time. They put on cartoons and our daughter watches them. The ballerina and Arthur and all of that. We've given in the past but the last 3 years have been rough and we've had to stop pretty much everything but paying bills. We don't have cable anymore. We still have the internet. But we dropped back to dial up.
With the raise freeze, it's like we slipped. They're taking out more for retirement now too. I could drop the insurance, but we're not given a choice on the pension. You work there, you put in. So even with dropping insurance, I'm not coming out ahead with pension going up. And my wife's got her student loans. We go to church and we put something in the plate every Sunday but even there we had to cut back and make our weekly donations smaller. For awhile I was working at Best Buy part-time on weekends and two nights during the week but my wife said it wasn't worth it because we weren't seeing each other and my daughter was having to be quite when I was home because I was always sleeping. I have a good job. But I started right before the raise freeze. I finish probation just when that happens and at first I wasn't even going to get a raise for finishing my six months probation. I was so upset about that that they found like a quarter an hour more they could kick me up. I've got a degree in my field. I would walk out but the whole point was getting a foot in and working my way up. I'd been working commissions, doing sales and not using my degree. I brought in good money like that but then we had 9/11 and sales were down. My wife and I talked and she felt since I wasn't happy, I should look for something with more security. So I put out applications and keep working in sales and then I get an interview for my new job and they were just promising the moon. Yearly raises, they'd cover college and I'd like to go back and get my masters. I could make more money at my job if I did. There were all these benefits. I start there and am thinking, "Advancement, good pay, benefits" and then we lose, I think it was college first, anyway, everything flies out the window bit. I can't believe we've been on a pay freeze and hiring freeze for three years. Because we've had layoffs and I'm doing my job and about 2 other people's jobs now. So while my pay's stayed the same and all the prices have gone up, my work's just gotten more and more. You probably don't need to hear about all of this.
No. This is fine.
Ryan: Well, you know, things are tight. My folks are in Kansas and we can talk there. Save on long distance. Our daughter's got all of these favorite places she goes like PBS Kids. If school's called because of ice, my wife can check that online. We don't have to sit through the news, and we have really bad news in our area, and look at the crawl and wait to see if her school's closed. We had a real bad patch in Texas last week. I mean, play the violins, but we get movies from our library instead of renting, we're just cutting back everywhere we can. And last year, we thought we cut back enough. We thought we had tightened the belt. If my car breaks down, I'll just stick to the bus. I started riding it this summer when gas got to be more than we could afford. We'll stick it in the garage and just make sure my wife's car is running. There's the house payment. When we got that house, I was thinking I was an adult. We put a lot of money down and I'm glad about that because we had it then. But it's more than a monthly payment. Last month the seal on the toilet in our bathroom was out and you'd walk in and find water on the floor. You think, "Okay, we can afford this." Then you turn around and the you got water spots on the ceiling from the rain because the roof's leaking. It's like it's something every other month. So, just to clear, when I say we'll scrape together something for Bart, I don't even mean thirty bucks. I mean, we'll try to get together ten bucks or something. It's not going to put food on his table but it's what we'll be able to afford and I'm sure he'll appreciate it.
You guys, you and your wife, use the computer too?
Ryan: We go to different sites. My wife will pull up stuff for lesson plans. But for personal stuff, we'll check out Liberal Oasis, The Common Ills, Bartcop, and a few others. Sometimes we'll watch Democracy Now! online. We don't get it on radio in our area and if it's on cable, well, we let the cable go. But if it's an easy day and there's time, which is often, and we see something at The Common Ills that looks interesting, we'll go ahead and watch it. With dialup, Amy's face will freeze every now and then. That's about the only problem. We'll click and read sometimes too. And we do pay attention to the headlines. Especially the stuff that gets picked.
The stuff members pick to highlight?
Ryan: Right. At The Common Ills.
And the Amy he was saying before is Amy Goodman, the host of Democracy Now! so Dona doesn't dog me for not noting that.
Ryan: Yeah, Amy Goodman. Seems to know her stuff. If C.I. quotes something and quotes it more than once, like the guy last week and this week on torture and the McCain amendment.
Michael Ratner?
Ryan: That thing got noted and all so it was obvious this is something we needed to make time for. And we did. We watched it.
Do you use the links a lot?
Ryan: Not really. At work, if I'm online, it's during a break. I'm trying to grab what I need and grab it quick. If I'm looking at Bill's site I'm not clicking to the links. I'm trusting him.
Bill Scher, Liberal Oasis.
Ryan: Yeah. Or like the Schechter thing today.
Danny Schechter.
Ryan: Right. C.I. hit that three times. I was meaning to click that because the stuff looks good.
But I didn't have time at work and doing this means there probably won't be time tonight. So if I'm going somewhere, I expect people to give me what I need there. If I had more time, I'd be clicking but most days that's not possible. And with dial up, let's be honest, you're risking a nothing screen because something may take forever to load, a page, and you might get a pop up and we're having to clean our hard drive enough as it is. So I just go my favorite sites that I bookmark most of the time. When C.I. explained what a member was, I was "Thank God" because I really felt like, "We're going to have to find some money because here these people are talking to me and I go to The Common Ills."
Anyone else?
Ryan: I'd been to your site and Rebecca's but at home only. My wife loves Rebecca's site. She loves the photos, she loves the "don't take any crap" attitude. But you and Rebecca we'd been to too. But only at the house.
We let the language fly.
Ryan: Not a problem at home, but at work. And if the f-word pops up, I stop going at work. We've got a house payment, we've got a kid and bills, I can't lose my job. There's a site I really like but I don't go there because one day, at work, I'm there and they've got a link. About Ahnuld. I click on it and the page loads and it's him with a woman on his shoulders and the woman doesn't have a top on. There was no warning or anything. I'm at work and I've got a topless woman on my computer screen. I thought I was going to get fired. I closed it and didn't get back online for a week. I don't want to dog on that site, but they should give you a warning or something so you know what's going to be showing up if you click on a link like that. I like it that you either have stuff in the quote that's got stars on it or dashes or you get a "not work safe warning."
At The Common Ills?
Ryan: Yeah. I wish other people did that. But that's probably another reason I don't click. I really did freak when I saw that topless woman. I didn't tell my wife about it and that made it worse. I don't mean, "Honey, I saw a topless woman!" I mean I didn't tell her I was online at work, at a site, and I click a link they have and I end up staring at a half-naked woman. When I kept thinking I was going to be fired for that, that was probably the worst part of it, trying to explain it to her, how I lost my job because I was at a site running down news and they provided a link and that was what it was to. How do you explain that? And who cares why when you lost your job?
Do I need to take that part out?
Ryan: No, she knows about it now. I'd still be sitting on it if I thought I was getting fired. But enough times passed that I slipped by. I'm not sure how they check on people or if they check on everyone or just a small group or what. But I slipped by and I've had evaluations since then without that being on them so I think I'm safe.
So you e-mail C.I. back and you say you're the guy and you're fine with talking?
Ryan: Yeah. On the record or off. So you guys call and we're talking.
And that didn't get posted.
Ryan: I hadn't been online yet when C.I. phoned. Sundays, it's get showered, get cleaned up, eat breakfast, get to church. But yeah, C.I. apologized and explained what was going on. How the person had her feelings hurt and how she felt she was being attacked and how she wanted peace. I said whatever. I was kind of let down to be honest. But C.I. goes we'll do one for something that goes out by e-mail and doesn't get posted online. That went pretty good. Since it wasn't online, my wife wanted to give her opinions too.
That'll be in Friday's gina & krista round-robin.
Ryan: So I talk to you guys and I was really glad about it even when it didn't run. Because I was thinking, at first, "Maybe someone will e-mail me and say, 'That really isn't the way our site is.'"
You know something like that. A lot of people don't post comments there. And my wife really thought I'd get a e-mail like that. And it never came that week. So the call was enough. Just knowing that someone else felt like what happened wasn't cool. Then Sunday afternoon, we had time, my wife and I, to read Kat's thing and really catch up on it. To me, it's like, at the other site, they think they can write whatever they want and nobody else can have an opinion and if they do, they're right and everybody else is wrong. I thought it was cool that Kat's first thing, the thing that got her drug into this by the site, was focused on what happened to me. I was nodding while I was reading that and my wife was saying, "Yes!" Because I think Kat captured it perfectly. And shout out to Kat for sticking up for me. I'm sorry she got drug into it. Wish I'd known about it before I talked to you guys.
So what happens next?
Ryan: Someone, C.I.?, tells the woman at that site that while her site's focused on her feelings, has she even tried to contact me or something like that. Ava sent me an e-mail on that and I didn't make a copy and I can't be on the phone and online at the same time.
Cause you have dial up.
Ryan: Yeah. But she must have made some comment back because I read the thing where Jess and C.I. explained how they tracked me down. Which was pretty smart, by the way. But it's kind of spooky knowing something you had forgotten about is still up there. I had posted about Ms. Musing, Liberal Oasis and some other sites, for nominations, nominating them and others as the best sites and that was like a year ago. So Ava e-mails me and says that the woman tried to e-mail me, this is this week. Not last week. She tries to e-mail me only after it's pointed out to her that I'm upset and that you guys did contact me and she says her e-mail got it bounced back. So she's already wondering how you guys tracked me down and I liked Jess's "basic reporting" remark. So Ava's asking me if I can e-mail something to her and she'll forward it to the woman because Jess and Ava are thinking the woman's doubting that you guys talked to me. Which I think says more about her than anything else. So I start to just write back. But my wife and I were trying to win tickets to a concert so we signed up at both our accounts with a local radio stations. Now we get e-mail from them all the time. Since my account wasn't a working account, that was the claim, I think.
The woman's claim.
Ryan: Yeah. So I grab one of those that came in and I forward it and put my message to Ava at the top of it because it shows that I do have an e-mail account, that I do get e-mail at. Here's what I wrote to Ava: "Dear Ava, Hope I'm doing 1 better for you. I'm fowarding most recent email not a personal 1." That should be most recent that's not a personal one but I was hurrying. Back to what I wrote Ava: "I had no contact from her. I got 12 emails today. No problemo on my end. I read C.I.'s thing with Jess and laughed. When I post there it asks for email so I put it in." There is at the woman's site. Back to my e-mail: "I figured thats where you all got my email address from. You're welcome to forward this to her. I don't know why it's an issue. I'm not going back to that site. Thank you for passing on that she says I am welcome to post there. I just don't want to. I'm not 12 y.o. punk who thinks it's way cool to mix with trolls and flamers. I never had that problem before there and she used to step in and say something that would pull everyone's different opinion together to give closure. If that's the word. There was respect at MM." MM is Ms. Musing. Back to my e-mail: "I was disrespected. Can you please tell Kat I lost the paper I wrote her e-mail on? Is it okay to write her through C.I.? If not, could you please pass her my e-mail? Glad you thought I was funny in the interview." I put in a smile right there. Back to the e-mail to Ava: "I'm not sure I'm funny in the one I did with C.I. I was tired and had read Kat's stuff on this and reallyI was kind of mad."
Now I've got the name of the man who did that stuff to Kat in here so I'll just say fill in name
"did try to sick them on her. Probably would have worked if they hadn't moved on. But I moved on too. I'm not going back anywhere that disrespected me like that. If" put in the guy's name
"had replied to me in any form I would have some respect but instead he stood on the sideline like a little punk while all these people who the excuse is don't go there normally swarm in and some 1 who does and who posts gets disrespected. Good for your gang for being smart enough to track me. Underline it, your gang actually got through. If she tried problem's on her end. If. Tell Kat to use the dictionary definition like I said when she post again. Tell C.I. I'm thinking of a name now and am thinking Kansas if that's not grabbed. Stay cool, Ryan."
Kansas?
Ryan: That's where I'm from. Or did you mean why a name?
Why a name?
Ryan: Because we'll go to the sites that treated us decent. We don't have time for that nonsense. We're not 12 years-old. We're grown ups, with a kid and not a lot of time to waste. So we'll go somewhere that appreciates us instead of to somewhere you get disrespected and they seem so happy that they're actually getting traffic that it's okay to spit on the people who've been with you. Because my wife and I both went there when she left Ms. Musing. That woman didn't even have anything up for a whole week one time. But we'd check in. And like I said awhile ago, I never disagreed before that post. I would post stuff like "Great post" because I just wanted to give them encouragement. That's not me saying that the posts I commented on weren't great. I only said that when I meant it. But I mean they had like 13 or 14 comments on that Dylan thing when it was all over because I did check after I talked to you guys. And that's a whole lot for that site. They have stuff that nobody comments on. And they have stuff that sometimes gets a comment or two or three. So when I saw that and all, it was like, "Oh, you care more about this new traffic then you do about how someone who's here all the time and supports you is treated."
So then what happened?
Ryan: I e-mailed Ava Monday evening and then I didn't hear anything. When you e-mailed me today I saw she had written to.
Ava?
Ryan: No the woman.
Do you want to talk about that?
Ryan: Yeah, I do. The title of her e-mail says it's an apology. It says "Apology from" and then her site's name. Now I didn't want to hear from her. I said that in what I wrote to Ava and intended for that to be forwarded to the woman. But she's saying she's apologizing in her title and I've read your e-mail and think, "Well, if I'm going to talk about this to Mike, I should at least know what she said because this may have just been a bad week." You know? I mean, think of all the excuses C.I. gave for her when we were all on the phone. So I was thinking like that because the title says "apology." So I open the e-mail. The first paragraph's about how she got the e-mail because apparently I'm too stupid to understand what I wrote for Ava to forward. Apparently, I'm too dumb to know that if the woman's responding to me, Duh!, it's because Ava forwarded my thing like I gave her permission to. But I'm also stupid because she says I mispelled my e-mail address. I may have. Until I found out how you guys found me, I figured it was through that. But since that doesn't display, I guess we just have her word that she tried to forward me. It's not like she forwarded me that earlier e-mail. I don't care. But first paragraph, she's telling me how she got my e-mail and read it, which I already know. Then she's telling me I mispelled my e-mail address at her site. Maybe I did. But she doesn't mention that she didn't even try to write me until she found out you guys had. So I really don't care. I'm waiting for the apology.
And?
Ryan: It's two paragraphs. This is the "apology." That's what the title says. So I told you the first paragraph. The second paragraph is three sentences. The last sentence is a weak apology.
The first two, she's lecturing me about what happened to Kat. Why is she even writing me that? This is supposed to be my apology. Why is she bringing up Kat and bringing her up before she says a thing to me about what happened to me? So I get a lecture on what happened to Kat, I read it. Darn it, I started it. I was the one who posted "I disagree 100%," the first comment anyone posted. I think I know what happened. I don't need that woman to lecture me on what happened. So here's the big apology. The last sentence of this so-called apology, where she finally get around to "apologizing." Here's what she writes: "But I am sorry you won't be returning to" her site. That's it. That's the apology.
Wait a second! Let me try to do this like C.I. would. Give me a second. Okay! So the sentence before "But I am sorry you won't be returning to ___", before that she's apologizing, right. The sentence before she's saying something to you about what happened to you, because this is your apology right?
Ryan: The title says it's my apology. But the sentence is all about what she thinks happened to Kat. Because no one can have an opinion but her. And there's no apology. The only thing she ever says is that she's sorry I won't be coming back to her site. That's not an apology. I don't know what's wrong with that woman.
She had a fit with Ava. She literally had an e-mail fit. Ava was "flat effect" that's what Elaine said. Ava was just responding to her e-mail, staying to the facts. And that woman's reply was just this huge rant. Like "How dare you talk to me like this!" And I mean, Ava showed it to her aunt first. Her aunt had told her, "Do not tell her anything personal, do not trust her, she will betray you." So Ava knew ahead of time not to do anything other than stay cut and dry. And the woman had a snit fit on Ava. But let's get back to your apology e-mail. The woman knows you're upset by what happened and she writes you an e-mail that says in the title this is an apology and what is her apology again?
Ryan: There's no apology. There's a lecture about how I should see things the way she does. She doesn't even mention what I posted or what anyone posted about me in reply. There's nothing about what was done to me in the e-mail. "Sorry," I guess that's her idea of an apology.
"Sorry." Sorry you won't be coming back to my site. That's her apology. I didn't ask the woman to write me. She's the one who wrote me. And she called it an apology. Instead, she's telling me I wrote my e-mail address wrong with an extra "d," and she's telling me how she got my e-mail, and she's telling me what she thinks happened to Kat. It's not an apology to Kat, let's make sure that's clear. She's still, the woman, in attack mode. She's still going after Kat. Still insiting that her opinion is the only opinion in the world. And then, in her last sentence, is what is supposed to be the apology: 'Sorry you won't be coming back to my site.' Why did she even bother writing? Hold it. My wife wants to say something.
Ryan's wife: That was the most tasteless apology I've ever seen. It wasn't even an apology. I work with little kids. I have to tell them to apologize to each other throughout the day. They say, "I'm sorry." I say, "For what?" Then they say what they did. This woman's only sorry that my husband isn't going to her site. That's not an apology. And I didn't like what she wrote about Kat. I didn't like her even bringing Kat up in what was supposed to be my husband's apology. What she was supposed to be apologizing for was what happened to my husband. Instead of even addressing what happened to Ryan, she's working through her own issues. That wasn't an apology. Therapy may be needed, but she needs to do that on her own time. If she's going to say in the heading that she's writing an apology, she needs to write one. I'm sorry because I know I'm screaming in your ear but this really upsets me. Before the excuse on her end was that she didn't have a way to contact him. When she does have a way to, what does she do with the opportunity? Lectures my husband. Doesn't take responsibility for what happened at her site. Doesn't even bring up what was done to my husband. Then she offers a weak ass, "Sorry you won't be coming back." Was she sticking her tongue out when she wrote that thing?
How mature is this woman? There's no reason to write someone an apology if you don't mean it. And there's no reason to call that an apology. It's not an apology and after all that happened to Ryan, to write that, it's just insulting. It's just rubbing salt in the wound. Here's Ryan.
Ryan?
Ryan: Yeah. She's upset. (Laughing) She's madder than I am. I was mad when I read it but when she read it, she was screaming mad and I thought, "I'll let her be the mad one." She is furious. My wife can't believe this.
Because she said, the woman, that it was an apology and then there's no apology.
Ryan: Yeah. And why did she even write me? To lecture me on how she sees what happened to Kat? I mean, I didn't want to hear from the woman. But fine, she says she's apologizing and then she does that? She's got issues that she needs to get under control. I didn't expect her to beg my forgiveness. I did expect that something in the e-mail would be about my comment or the comments where people dogged me. That didn't happen. She's too busy tearing apart Kat.
It's like, hold it, my wife wants back on.
Ryan's wife: It's like "jealous much"? That woman is so damn focused on Kat. She's just got to bring up what she thinks about Kat any chance she gets. It's like she just wants Kat to die or something. I read both of Kat's things on this. The thing that enraged the woman to begin with and then the thing where Kat shares her opinion, after the woman said Kat wasn't as good a writer as the man who writes for the woman which was really insulting and I am a feminist and I'm the reason Ryan went to Ms. Musing because I gave him a lecture that we have a daughter and that she has one father and he better be there for her and he better be able to talk to her about something other than football. He'd read my Ms. when he saw it lying around the house. So it was easy to get him to read Ms. Musing. But who is this woman? This isn't the woman who wrote for Ms. Musing. There is nothing about feminism in the way she has attacked Kat.
And reading the e-mail to my husband, her hatred for Kat is just intense. She just wants a cat fight, that's all she wants. She will not say one nice word about Kat and she will bring up Kat's name to trash for any reason in the world. That isn't feminsm. I'm guessing that's why she's not at Ms. Musing anymore. And Ms. is better for her being gone! I'm sorry, I know I'm yelling, but who does this woman think she is? Where does she get off lecturing my husband when she's supposedly writing to apologize. No one I know would read that and say, "Well, at least she apologized." Because she didn't! All she did was go into another rant about bad writer Kat. In her mind, Kat's a bad writer. I've been a fan of Kat's writing since the thing where she and her friends were in the middle of nowhere, about to run out of gas, when they find the perfect CD to listen to. You know, Kat wrote my husband. He lost the e-mail address and asked someone to let Kat know. So Kat writes him and she doesn't bring up that woman. She writes a short e-mail that checks in to make sure he's okay. But that woman, in a supposed apology, after wanting my husband's e-mail, just wants to lecture him about how she sees things? No one cares. You say you're going to apologize, you apologize! You don't write an e-mail like that to my husband. And I'm sorry but that editorial you did, it said it all. If you can't speak out against the war, if you can't even talk about it, what use are you? What a waste of time. I mean it's all old music and whatever TV show the teeny boppers are watching. This is how an adult finds pride? Well no surprise! She also thinks insulting my husband is an apology! She also thinks "Sorry you won't visit my site anymore" is an apology. She needs to do some work on her issues. ___ has serious issues. And she needs to leave us alone. She finally gets around to writing an apology, what a week later? And that's her apology? Just leave us alone. We're not going to your stupid site anymore. We'd already made that decision and we are not "sorry" about it. But after that lame attempt, it's not an attempt. She just wanted to "last word" it one more time. That's all this whole thing's been about. Her attacks on Kat. Her lame e-mail. She's just got to be right and we all have to be wrong. Well she's entitled to her opinion but when so many think she's wrong, she might want to be a little less sure of herself. That woman disgusts me. I'd heard from Ryan, after C.I. called, when we were on our way to church, Ryan tells me that the woman wants to make peace. She wants to end it. It's bothered her. Blah, blah, blah. No, it hasn't. She doesn't want peace. You don't bring Kat up to my husband, in what's supposed to be his apology, to again say that Kat is wrong and you are right, if you want peace. The woman has serious issues. I'm a teacher, not a counselor. I can't help her. She needs to find someone who can. Handing off to Ryan.
Ryan: You there?
Yeah.
Ryan: I told you, she is mad.
She sounds it.
Ryan: And this is calmer than she was when she first read it. She is mad. I'm mad too.
I know you're going to have to go soon.
Ryan: Right.
And I need to get this typed so you can read over it.
Ryan: No. Just put it up. Don't worry about it. I'll read it tomorrow. I'm sure it's fine. And I bet it's going to be a lot to type anyway.
Yeah. The only thing I hate about interviews are the typing of it. I'm going to e-mail it to you, okay? That way you can read it at home or at work. A lot of people copy & paste into e-mails for that reason. But I don't think we have any language issues here.
Ryan: Sounds good.
So, last thoughts?
Ryan: I just think if you're going to tell someone you're sorry, if you're going to apologize, you do it. You don't do what she did. And 'Sorry you're not going to visit my site anymore' isn't an apology. Like my wife said, it's like a little kid sticking out their tongue at you. Nah-nah-nah. That wasn't an apology. It doesn't even read like it was written to me. It was like a bad excuse for never having tried to e-mail until she realized that there were other people in the world besides her, which only happened when she found out you guys had contacted me, and it was a lecture about how Kat is wrong and this woman is right. That e-mail wasn't even to me. It was just her screaming some more and she needed someone new to scream at.
Do you think you'll get an apology?
Ryan: No. And it doesn't matter because I'm not reading anything else from her. She had a chance at an apology. When I saw that title, I was thinking about all C.I. said, about how maybe it was too heated and how this woman deserved a chance and all the rest. So there's the e-mail with the title saying it's an apology and I'm willing to believe it's that. Then I read it and it's not that. That's it. Quit bothering people. Leave people alone. If you don't know how to apologize or if you can't be sincere, don't even contact people. That was insulting.
Ryan, I really appreciate you're talking to me tonight.
Ryan: No, I appreciate you. I appreciate C.I., you and everyone. The only people who felt bad about what happened was you guys. None of you did anything wrong. The person who should feel bad is too busy screaming about Kat being wrong. Kat's right. If it wasn't for the fact that the woman can't apologize, I'd say she owes Kat an apology. But the way she's acted, now or again, there's no need for her to contact Kat. Kat doesn't need the headache.
---
We stayed on the phone for about 10 more minutes. My opinion, Ryan was treated poorly to begin with and the apology wasn't an apology. MY OPINION. Now that woman doesn't think Kat's entitled to opinion, doesn't think she's smart enough to have one or smart enough to comprehend what she reads. But if there was an election and we made the woman ruler of all our thoughts, I missed it. So I'll keep my own opinion. I don't need permission from her. And Kat will write whatever she wants. She doesn't need the woman's approval. The woman thinks she and her people can demand corrections. Turns out she changed her site up. Not for a correction, my opinion, but to clean up the issue because it was embarrassing for her to be seen publicly acting that way. My opinion, she should be embarrassed. My opinion, she should have apologized to Kat publicly after insulting her publicly. But that woman doesn't know how to apologize judging by her e-mail to Ryan.
democracy now
the common ills
the third estate sunday review
like maria said paz
sex and politics and screeds and attitude
kats korner
danny schechter
bartcop
liberal oasis
